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Post by sibernethy on Jun 5, 2017 8:57:50 GMT -8
I have decided to have this thread locked. I apologize for the mess, but it's just not worth me or anyone else getting fired up at this point. Let's just move on from this, shall we? I accept responsibility for the mess as the thread starter.
DISCLAIMER: This post uses politics as the main example of a larger main point, the point being how what you post publicly can reveal certain things about you that could work against you in a professional setting.
As of late, I'm seeing an increasing number of celebrities and even voice actors who feel the need to enlighten the world as to their political views. I see some of these posts and immediately cross them off as not worth considering for a role in any project I might be doing.
This sort of thing should be discussed or resolved either at the voting booth or between family and/or a trusted friend, not on Twitter because it says the following things about you:
1: Any political posts made in a derogatory manner (doesn't matter who it's aimed at) shows me that you lack maturity, restraint, and professionalism. Anyone who might be a client, especially with opposing views to yours, can see what you post on Twitter and deny you a role in what could be a major production, not even because of what you said or which way you lean, but the fact you did it at all.
2: It's also irresponsible because chances are the average voice actor (who has a Twitter account) has followers and fans, so you're either going to put them off as well from you, or you're going to be an unhealthy influence in their lives, especially if they look up to you and admire you. Chances are a thousand to one that most of you don't know anything about politics; you're just regurgitating what you've been told. Don't do it. Don't ever do it. Because it could cost you a well-paying role and potentially interested clients could be turned away from you simply because you can't keep your mouth shut when it comes to politics. I don't want to know what you think of Trump!
3: If you can't obey this rule of common sense, chances are you're likely to fly off the handle in other areas too, such as team relations. I don't want political activists, I want voice actors.
I have recently adopted a screening process because of the alarming number of "enlightened" posts on Twitter about our president. Whether it's about Obama, Bush, Trump, or Clinton, that means nothing. After interviewing any voice actor, I will be looking for their Twitter page. When I find it, I'll be looking through their posting history, and anything I read that's less than a month old which contains any kind of inflammatory remark against any political figure will be denied the role they were interviewed for.
Someone has to set an example to maintain a professional environment, free of politics and other nonsense. If it means rejecting someone important because they can't keep their mouth shut, then so be it. I'm not interested in what you think about the president, I'm interested in your ability to perform as a voice actor and as part of a production team.
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Post by Rebekah Amber Clark on Jun 5, 2017 9:21:33 GMT -8
Personally, I think this is at best a bit of an overreaction and at worst, totally out of line.
It's called SOCIAL media for a reason; people are not machines and we have opinions. Sharing these opinions is a natural and healthy part of human communication. Now, if someone really can't separate between what is and is not okay to say (extremely inappropriate remarks, filth, etc.) then I can understand not wanting to work with someone. Or if you wish to maintain a politics-free zone *in your project*, that's totally within your rights. But say that people don't have the right, on their personal social media accounts, to discuss things that they want to discuss, is in my book stepping over the line.
I don't think there are many people (voice actors included) who are so terrified of maybe missing working with that one director that they censor themselves to the point of never daring to have an opinion. So, good luck with that. I won't be working with such an inflexible person in my near future.
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Post by sibernethy on Jun 5, 2017 9:27:51 GMT -8
Personally, I think this is at best a bit of an overreaction and at worst, totally out of line. It's called SOCIAL media for a reason; people are not machines and we have opinions. Sharing these opinions is a natural and healthy part of human communication. Now, if someone really can't separate between what is and is not okay to say (extremely inappropriate remarks, filth, etc.) then I can understand not wanting to work with someone. Or if you wish to maintain a politics-free zone *in your project*, that's totally within your rights. But say that people don't have the right, on their personal social media accounts, to discuss things that they want to discuss, is in my book stepping over the line. I don't think there are many people (voice actors included) who are so terrified of maybe missing working with that one director that they censor themselves to the point of never daring to have an opinion. So, good luck with that. I won't be working with such an inflexible person in my near future. What I have just highlighted is exactly why I have this concern. It's because it really is getting out of control. It didn't start in the voice acting community but it spilled over to it. I actually don't mind talking politics with people if they can be civil about it and don't allow their emotions to run wild, but that's exactly what I see when I read some of these Tweets, and it doesn't speak well of someone who claims to be a professional. Now regarding that inflexibility thing: the reason I said "remarks that are less than a month old" is because I'm willing to accept stuff people posted in the past that they're not particularly proud of. I just don't want it to become an issue in any team or project, especially given how heated debates are these days. |
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Post by Rebekah Amber Clark on Jun 5, 2017 9:47:16 GMT -8
Not wanting to work with someone who posts inappropriate comments (political or not) is quite different from refusing to work with anyone who posts political content (appropriate or not).
For the record, I would have no problems working with someone who holds opposing political views from mine, and feels free to express them. However, I do find your position of a flat no-politics policy, ESPECIALLY in regards to people's personal accounts which have no bearing on your projects, to be quite unreasonable (and also unrealistic). Frankly, it doesn't fill me with excitement over the idea of working with you.
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The Uncertain Man
Member
Looking for some gentle feedback on how to improve my demo.
Posts: 164 
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Post by The Uncertain Man on Jun 5, 2017 9:55:52 GMT -8
Honestly, I think this is a bit harsh and unreasonable. Social media isn't going anywhere and people are completely within their rights to express political beliefs. Rebekah Amber Clark and I happen to have completely opposite political beliefs which she often expresses on Twitter, and yet I haven't written her off in the slightest. You just have to be mature and acknowledge that politics is an area that people feel strongly about. |
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Post by Anairis Q on Jun 5, 2017 10:32:49 GMT -8
To deny someone a role simply due to their personal political beliefs shows unprofessionalism within its own. I follow a lot of VAs on Twitter, and some are quite outspoken about their own beliefs, political, religious, or otherwise. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with them doesn't and shouldn't matter, as it is not representative of their work. Most clients are aware of this, both in indie and professional fields.
In the VA world, the quickest way to get blacklisted is to speak ill of other VAs, clients, or any productions, or breaking NDA. Political topics are too personal to be a justifiable reason, and just can't be a deciding factor in hiring a person.
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Post by sibernethy on Jun 5, 2017 10:45:37 GMT -8
Not wanting to work with someone who posts inappropriate comments (political or not) is quite different from refusing to work with anyone who posts political content (appropriate or not). For the record, I would have no problems working with someone who holds opposing political views from mine, and feels free to express them. However, I do find your position of a flat no-politics policy, ESPECIALLY in regards to people's personal accounts which have no bearing on your projects, to be quite unreasonable (and also unrealistic). Frankly, it doesn't fill me with excitement over the idea of working with you. Many of the political comments I see just so happen to fall into what I just highlighted here. Given the nature of Twitter, it's not exactly designed to be personal if half the world can find it and I can't help but see it scrolling down my Twitter feed. Anything that's posted on Twitter, by nature, is meant to be shared with the world. That's why people use Twitter. If they wanted something to be personal, they wouldn't share it on Twitter at all. Also remember that it's not the political stuff itself that concerns me here, it's the volatile nature of it which can cause friendships and even careers to disintegrate, and working with a team, it's not uncommon for a careless gibe to completely destabilize the team itself and ruin the project, and if there's one thing that's likely to do the job, it's politics. That's where I'm getting at. When I see a time when people can better handle their emotions regarding politics, then I may change my mind about screening and be more relaxed on this sort of thing, but in today's world, you not only can get in trouble over what you say, even in defense against a statement made against you, you can get hurt, or even killed. I don't want that for either me or my team. And about that last remark from you (which I highlighted as well), study what you just wrote carefully: "For the record, I would have no problems working with someone who holds opposing political views from mine, and feels free to express them."Fair enough. But then I see this: "However, I do find your position of a flat no-politics policy, ESPECIALLY in regards to people's personal accounts which have no bearing on your projects, to be quite unreasonable (and also unrealistic)."
First off, from a PR perspective, it's dangerous to bring up politics in a professional environment, particularly if the environment you're part of is relatively well known and under the leadership of a CEO or President. Strangers, on one hand, at most, might just give you a strange look and go back to their conversation with someone, but in an environment where cooperation between team members is absolutely necessary, if two people have a falling out because of a heated discussion (which could likely be brought on by opposing political views), it's up to the higher ups to defuse it and prevent it from destroying team harmony and leadership. If not, word spreads fast about such events in various news outlets which pretty much paints the company or team a color they don't want to be seen as. Second, for someone who claims to have no problems working with someone having opposing political views from you, I'm not sensing that from you in this discussion. You have an ideology that clashes with mine, political or not, but you decided to come here and not settle it peacefully. Instead, your side of the argument has a few epithets that indicate you have a personal issue with my way of doing things. You didn't have to come here at all, but you chose to. And lastly, this: "Frankly, it doesn't fill me with excitement over the idea of working with you."
What's that supposed to mean? Now how is that going to help you in any way? Remember that you're posting on a voice acting forum and it's not just me who will be reading this. Regardless of who turns out to be right, wrong, or if there even is a clear distinction. Maybe we're both wrong. Maybe we're both right. If you have a problem with me over a discussion like this, how do you expect to fare with other producers/directors/talent seekers who don't have time for this sort of thing? All they have to do is come here and read up on how this conversation was handled and they'll see how you get along with other people (or fail to). I apologize if what I said offended you in any way, but all things considered, my main point still stands, reinforced by this very conversation between us. Stuff like this is why I decided to have the screening in place. It's not meant to just keep politics out of the picture, it's mainly to prevent clashes of this very kind we're experiencing here from causing problems within a team or a project. If you want to take this discussion further, I invite you to message me in private. This is still a public thread. the Uncertain Man @anairis Q I've requested this thread be locked by an admin or mod. We just clearly cannot get along, and I want to end this discussion before it gets too heated. |
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Post by Rebekah Amber Clark on Jun 5, 2017 12:46:55 GMT -8
I'm sorry that you seem to be getting so upset by this thread. =/ I respect your decision not to want to discuss it anymore, though by 'personal' I meant in the sense of personal vs. business, not personal as in private.
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Post by Kyotosomo on Jun 5, 2017 15:34:45 GMT -8
As much as I love to talk politics, I'd prefer if people just avoid the subject entirely as most people don't feel the same. Most people are very hateful of anyone with a differing view point than them and are incapable of having a calm adult discussion about politics or really any controversial topic. Admittedly I'm no fan of Trump myself (nor the last two presidents), but I still think it's rather unfortunate to see so many VAs taking swings at him on Twitter, especially so many famous ones who should be setting a good example by staying above it all (like for example Yuri Lowenthai whose whole Twitter feed is dedicated to Trump). Luckily if you're Liberal, you're of the same persuasion as most VAs (acting is a liberal art after all); but you could still end up losing a handful of good connections and you have to remember that even one person speaking ill of you behind your back can make huge waves. Plus you're also probably alienating somewhere between a quarter to half of your audience for no good reason. That's a lot of people. And for those who are Conservative you especially need to keep quiet about your political views; like at all costs. I know it's incredibly unfair, especially as someone who loves the idea of freedom of speech; but you have to realize you will get blacklisted so hard and right now with the election of Trump people are more angry than ever, it's not worth it. Everyone should just avoid talking politics until we live in a more tolerant society (so basically never lol).
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Post by Bean on Jun 5, 2017 22:11:59 GMT -8
I know you've effectively ended your thread on this, but I wanted to chime in and say that while I agree to a small extent that people need to be careful what they post on Twitter, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't post about things that affects them or those that they are close to on there. I follow a few VAs on Twitter, and you have to keep this one important fact in mind. They're human, not machines or commodities. They'll have opinions. Sometimes you'll get project updates from them, maybe a bunch of animal pics, and other times they'll get into serious discussions about politics or other stuff.
I'm thankful that the ones I follow aren't forced into a situation where they feel they can't express themselves. Obviously, again, there has to be a level of restraint when talking about this sort of stuff, but there have been a lot of decisions in this volatile climate lately that could have an effect on them, their loved ones, or even just casual acquaintances and friends of friends. I could never see myself being completely silent on these kind of discussions, although I will personally let others do the talking while I just post happier, random things most of the time or keep it about my own life on there.
Again, it all comes down to knowing that the people you want to hire out there are just that... people. Anyway, it's partially because of one of them that I was able to slightly pull myself out of a funk recently that I'm still trying to keep from falling back into. I wouldn't have been able to do that if they were just posting what they're working on and left their Twitter feeds at that. Hope you remember this the next time you think about who you want to hire or ask for help on a project because I thought this was going to be about going out of control on Twitter when I clicked on the thread, not about just being human. I agree with the thought that it would be tough for me to work for someone that didn't realize this.
Good luck to you in the future for getting people to help you with your work. Just remember we all have our own opinions and feelings, and that includes you. Peace, dude.
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