The Pros and Cons of Pay-to-Play Casting Sites
Sept 7, 2021 23:40:33 GMT -8
Kevin Liberty likes this
Post by Lady Stardust ★ on Sept 7, 2021 23:40:33 GMT -8
With so much work happening online these days, many actors inevitably ask the question “Is it worth signing up for online casting sites?” These sites—-commonly called “pay-to-plays” (or P2Ps for short), are services in which actors pay a yearly membership fee to be able to access paid casting calls from various clients seeking voice talent.
Now, there is (rightfully) a lot of industry concern and discussion around these sites - and there has been for years - primarily due to the fear of rates eroding, talent being taken advantage of, and putting a paywall in place to access auditions. However, there are also actors who swear by online casting sites and say it’s been great for their income and building their client list. While there are certainly valid ethical concerns with such sites, it’s also evident that they are not going away anytime soon...so it’s at least best to be informed if it’s something you are thinking of pursuing.
Because the topic comes up so often, we decided to create an article explaining the advantages and disadvantages of joining a pay-to-play online casting site. This article isn’t meant to advocate for or against such services; it’s to help arm everyone with various perspectives from around the community so that they can make an informed decision.
Thank you to all of our server members who helped contribute to this article!
The Advantages
However, commercials on pay-to-play sites often have exploitative rates and terms, which we will get into in the “Disadvantages” section.
The Disadvantages
Rates often range from low to atrocious—-sometimes even grossly exploitative.
Because these sites are filled with voice actors hungry for work and hoping to make back their investments on the membership, clients learn quickly that they can post a job for virtually any low amount and people will still jump on it because they need the work. "There are projects that are listed at FAR less than they should pay for the market they're aimed at," says Duffy Weber. There are some sites like Bodalgo or Voiceovers dot com that aim to be more ethical pay-to-plays with proper rates, but unfortunately, the volume of jobs and auditions available tend to be nowhere near what the bigger sites have that don’t curate their jobs.
Okay, so let's say that a talent has read all the disadvantages and red flags and still decides they would like to join an online casting site. What are some must-haves in order to be successful?
If you’re a client…
Now, there is (rightfully) a lot of industry concern and discussion around these sites - and there has been for years - primarily due to the fear of rates eroding, talent being taken advantage of, and putting a paywall in place to access auditions. However, there are also actors who swear by online casting sites and say it’s been great for their income and building their client list. While there are certainly valid ethical concerns with such sites, it’s also evident that they are not going away anytime soon...so it’s at least best to be informed if it’s something you are thinking of pursuing.
Because the topic comes up so often, we decided to create an article explaining the advantages and disadvantages of joining a pay-to-play online casting site. This article isn’t meant to advocate for or against such services; it’s to help arm everyone with various perspectives from around the community so that they can make an informed decision.
Thank you to all of our server members who helped contribute to this article!
The Advantages
It saves time and energy on direct marketing.
“Cold-calling” potential clients can be tedious, and often yield little reward unless you have a great system down. Many times when you attempt to direct market, these businesses won’t even be in need of voice talent any time soon. However, on a pay-to-play site, you have a list of buyers right there that are actively casting for voice talent for current projects.
Furthermore, by creating a more level playing field where anyone with access to the job can audition, it eliminates the need to "sell yourself" in order to get on a talent roster or hook a client with direct marketing, especially if you don't already have a big resume to back you up. "[P2Ps] are accessible for anyone at any point in their career. They have the advantage of allowing you to book work on the merit of your audition, without the need for representation or without having to go and find individual opportunities on your own," says Duffy Weber.
It allows more opportunities for talent outside of major markets.
Traditionally, it was quite difficult for a lot of voice talent to make a full-time living if they lived outside of production hubs such as LA or Dallas. Many voice actors outside of these markets rely largely on online clients to find work, and pay-to-plays are sometimes seen as a “necessary evil” if you’re not in LA, or especially if you're not based in the United States at all. "I do think that some pay-to-play sites are worth it for actors who do not have as many opportunities to reach outside the sphere of work they find on their own, whether that be due to not having an agent, living in an area where that may not be as viable, or both," says Joshua Waters.
One bright side: Due to the pandemic, many more studios that previously only recorded in-person have been more open to considering talent who aren’t local.
It allows access to commercial auditions without an agent.
If you want to do a lot of commercial work, the general preferred approach is to get signed with an agency. However, agencies are very competitive, and most are difficult to get into, especially if you don’t have much experience. "In these times, it's becoming increasingly difficult to even land a regional agent with how competitive the market has become," says Devin Lauderdale.
But since the auditions on a pay-to-play site are open to any talent willing to pay the money, such jobs can become more accessible (even if they typically don’t pay anywhere close to the commercial jobs that go through agencies.) And even if you do have an agent, pay-to-play sites can widen the net beyond that. “The ability to receive a steady stream of auditions day in and day out, cannot be understated. Even some of the biggest agents are only sending out a fraction of the work that pay to play sites are able to provide,” says August Sargenti.
However, commercials on pay-to-play sites often have exploitative rates and terms, which we will get into in the “Disadvantages” section.
It allows talents to widen their opportunity net in general, including to opportunities they may not find elsewhere.
Unfortunately, certain companies only cast through pay-to-play sites, and sometimes the chance to try out for that major hit videogame is enough to push actors into buying a membership. "I have sent thousands of emails in an effort to directly market, and a ton of responses are, 'Oh, we just use [insert p2p service] to get our talent,'" says Alex Mitts. If a client is looking for voice actors, online casting sites come up as the first search results, and sometimes their relative ease of use and ability to filter auditions without emailing hundreds of potential talent can be seen as a quick and easy way to get things done, especially in a world of constant "urgent" deadlines.
And while no one should rely on these sites as their only source of opportunities, it can be a nice supplemental income to talent who are already booking enough to work full-time. "I see joining pay-to-plays as a singular rung in a ladder - it's never going to be my only way of marketing, of building my income or improving my portfolio. But I've accepted it as one method of running a sub-set of my business, and I enjoy that for what it is," says Aimee Smith.
The process of getting paid can be less of a hassle.
Online casting sites typically handle the entire payment process for you, so you don’t have to worry about manually creating invoices or chasing down clients who don’t pay. The site may even be able to step in on your behalf to get you paid if it’s taking unreasonably long. On Voices dot com for example, the client must pay up front and funds get held “in escrow” until the talent completes the job—-which means they have to actually have the money in order to hire you. (Unfortunately, however, the site takes a hefty cut of your payment in exchange for this service, which we will cover in the following section.)
The Disadvantages
Rates often range from low to atrocious—-sometimes even grossly exploitative.
Because these sites are filled with voice actors hungry for work and hoping to make back their investments on the membership, clients learn quickly that they can post a job for virtually any low amount and people will still jump on it because they need the work. "There are projects that are listed at FAR less than they should pay for the market they're aimed at," says Duffy Weber. There are some sites like Bodalgo or Voiceovers dot com that aim to be more ethical pay-to-plays with proper rates, but unfortunately, the volume of jobs and auditions available tend to be nowhere near what the bigger sites have that don’t curate their jobs.
It's sadly easy for newer talent to get taken advantage of, especially if they don't know what these jobs are supposed to pay. "You sometimes see national spots for 200 bucks, which is ridiculous," says A.J. Beckles. That money can seem great to someone who is living in a small town, working a day job for minimum wage, and just trying to get started in VO...but a quick trip to the GVAA Rate Guide can be quite a rude awakening!
In addition to the membership fee that you pay to access auditions, certain sites will take a cut of your pay from each job as well.
On Voices dot com for example (henceforth referred to as VDC), the talent must present a total “budget” to the client which is inclusive of the hefty cut taken by the site. So for example, if the talent wants to make a mere $100 for the job, they must quote $125. "A yearly fee AND an additional 20-25% feels like a crime," says Alex Mitts.
In contrast, a fairly standard commission for an agent to take is only 10% of the job payment (and a reputable agent also won’t charge you a yearly fee for the privilege of being signed with them.) *At the time of this article, we were told that another very popular pay-to-play site, Voice123, does not take a cut of each job the way that VDC does.
There is also a lack of transparency to the client in regards to just how much of a commission the site takes, so clients may think that talent is quoting “too high” for a job without being aware of how little of the budget they are actually walking away with. (There was a whole fiasco some years ago where it was found that even more was being skimmed off the top for the “full service” jobs run by a project manager.) According to Luis Torrelles, it's a "client-focused business model that punishes the artist twice: both with the yearly fee AND with the percentage cut from the quote."
Usage of the work isn't always transparent, either.
There can also be a lack of transparency to the voice talent in terms of just where or how their voice is being used… for example, someone could record a video narration that they assume will be used internally for employees at a mom-and-pop shop, only to find out later that it was used for a major national company on their YouTube channel. And because you sign away all usage rights to your recordings, there’s nothing you can do about it.
Some sites allow “bidding”, which encourages a race to the bottom.
Let's say a client lists their budget with a range of $100-$250. This means that they will consider "bids" from talent anywhere within that range...or so they say. In reality, unless all the $100 auditions sound like they were recorded on a potato, bidding $250 - even if that's the bare minimum that a job of that type should pay - can get your audition tossed from consideration.
This is problematic, because at its core, it encourages talent to underbid each other in an attempt to win the job. While not every client will opt for the lower bidders, it sets a dangerous precedent of letting people undercut their peers by saying they're willing to work for less, which in turn drives rates down for everybody. "A lot of P2P's lack common ethics, or a respect for the industry, by undercutting industry rates as much as they can to market to clients who don't want to pay those rates. It's a cyclical issue that will slowly drive the bottom-line lower and lower," says Devin Lauderdale.
It sets a bad precedent in terms of what clients expect from voice talent.
Ridiculously short turnaround times, free extensive editing and/or line splitting, unlimited revisions…you name it. Because many of the talent on these sites are either unaware of accepted industry standards or are just desperate to work, the clients get accustomed to talent jumping through hoops no questions asked, and then bristle if they are told that yes, it’s going to cost extra if you want every line and take mastered and in a separate file, and that it’s going to cost extra if you change the script for the third time and want it recorded again, and that it’s also not reasonable to expect most people to be glued to their computers all day long waiting for your message.
Algorithms can mean there are many auditions that you're not seeing, despite paying for the membership.
V123 actually has tiers of membership, which means that if you're willing to shell out even more money for their "platinum" package (at the time of this article, nearly a whopping $5,000 per year), you'll be able to receive better and higher-budget auditions on an earlier timeframe. If you're on a standard plan, you may never see these auditions at all, and instead get the lower-budget, less attractive jobs that the higher-tier members didn't want. "Getting cast in VO is fickle enough as it is; companies that are willing to double down on that notion by offering preferential treatment for members who pay more in terms of early audition time, automatic recommendations to new clients, etc... is dishonest in my opinion," says Nathan Hunt.
Miranda Gauvin cites "mysterious algorithms and tiered membership levels" as a major frustration with pay-to-play sites. "You could be perfect for something, but if you haven't paid enough, you could only get the audition after it's been picked over by the higher levels...and sometimes you won't get it at all."
It’s against TOS on many sites to work with the client off-platform.
This is understandable from a business perspective as the site wants their cut and doesn’t want to be liable for any communication issues that happen off-site. Furthermore, it can actually protect talent in some ways to keep payment on the platform. Joshua Waters issues a word of caution about clients who are insistent on taking the job offsite: "This could very well mean that they are either not going to send you what you are owed, or not send you anything at all for your work."
But even from a practical standpoint, restricting communication to the platform can make coordinating certain aspects of the job more cumbersome. "This can be a little inconvenient when it comes to scheduling live direction sessions and wanting to give over your contact information," says Aimee Smith. And if the client wants a couple of pickups months down the line, they may have to create an entirely new job, which can be an additional hassle (as opposed to simply replying to an email thread!)
The good news: After the job is out, it can be possible to attempt to take clients you trust off-platform for future jobs if you are crafty about it…for example, following up with them on LinkedIn or Twitter.
Deadlines mean very little in the P2P world.
If you get an audition from a reputable studio, agency, or closed casting pool, you can usually feel confident that the stated deadline will be honored. Many actors submit last-minute, and are still considered as long as they turn in submissions on time.
However, in the P2P world, all bets are off. "There is no deadline. The deadline doesn’t exist because they don’t follow it.. It’s very much a first-come-first-served basis and it can be brutal," says VAC server member Dracomies. "Often you’ll see the role immediately cast within the day. Sometimes within a few hours. So if you aren’t in a position to send that audition quickly, you’re definitely at a disadvantage."
Heidi Tabing reiterates the frustration with clients not sticking to deadlines: "(I have) to be very quick with auditions if I want to stand a chance of being heard."
And yes, there is the startlingly common chance that due to the algorithms, short deadlines, and sheer number of talents auditioning, your audition may never even be listened to by the client at all. Nathan Hunt admits that it was difficult to accept the fact that his auditions might not even get heard or reviewed: "I truly felt like I was submitting my auditions to the void!"
And finally, these sites are extremely competitive.
"If you aren't ready to be competitive on a P2P site, you'll end up wasting money and have little idea why," says Bruce E. Hennigar II. Just because you fork out the money for a membership fee and have good demos and a treated recording space, it's no guarantee that you'll actually book enough to even make your money back. "You're going against hundreds, if not thousands, of other talent of many different skill levels...so competition is incredibly fierce," says August Sargenti.
Richard Di Britannia offers the blunt perspective that while pay-to-play sites may market themselves as an easy way to make money voice acting, this could not be further from the truth. "Simply paying a subscription does not mean you are deserving of work, because paying a subscription does not equate to having the necessary skill to perform. Believing this to be true would be like buying a Steinway piano with the expectation that it will allow you to play well - it won't." He adds that if an actor is desperate for work or money, they may have false hope that joining a pay-to-play site will solve their issues. "In reality, joining these sites means you are competing with established talent with decades of experience who will give their best performance for every single audition and job. In many instances, you must be able to not only match their skill but often exceed it. Pay-to-play sites won't tell you this when they are asking for your credit card number, they'll tell you 'anyone can do it'."
What are some red flags that talent should be aware of?
- Commericals that ask for a "full buyout in perpetuity." To be clear, buyouts are typically necessary for projects such as video games, apps, and instructional videos where the media needs to remain accessible on a permanent basis or otherwise indefinite amount of time. But when it comes to commercials, clients should be paying according to how long they wish to run the ad, especially because it can give you an exclusivity conflict with similar brands if you're not careful. For example, let's say you do a national commercial for a major fast food restaurant on a P2P site with full buyout in perpetuity, and they decide to run the ad on and off for several years. Later, you sign with a great agent who sends you a commercial audition for a competing national fast food chain that pays ten times the amount and is on a union contract...but you can't take it because it states that you must not have existing fast-food conflicts and you already shot yourself in the foot by being the voice of a competing brand for much less than you're worth. "Anything listed as "in perpetuity" needs to be looked at carefully," says Miranda Gauvin. "Are they paying enough for that much usage?"
- AI / text-to-speech: We've received reports of text-to-speech jobs with appallingly low rates that also expected editing to be factored in. But even worse, they wanted an unlimited license to use and sell the talent's voice print for any possible application or product from now until the end of time. And believe it or not, there are companies actively working to develop computer-generated voices that they market as cheap and easy replacement to using real human voice actors. But to create these AI voices, they need a voiceprint generated from a real human voice actor reading hundreds or thousands of lines, which means someone could inadvertently be working towards a product meant to put them out of a job. "In fact, I'd say do not even audition for AI voice over for buyout unless it's paying well into the 6-figure range. Accept nothing less because they will use and abuse your voice, and it could actually spell disaster for your career if there is an exclusivity clause and you're no longer able to work," says Devin Lauderdale. While legitimate text-to-speech jobs do exist, it's best to have these negotiated by an agent if possible.
- "Bait and switch" workloads. Sometimes, a project's workload isn't finalized at the time of casting. 500 words turns into 750 words, 2 videos turns into 4 videos, usage goes from social media to broadcast TV, or there are excessive editing requirements that aren't disclosed up front. These things happen, but the client should be forthcoming about any such changes and willing to adjust the pay. After all, when talent auditioned for and quoted for the job, they were operating under the assumption that the parameters listed in the casting call would be the same upon hiring. While an extra line or two probably isn't a big deal, if the workload is significantly larger than a talent was led to believe, they should be paid accordingly.
- Running away with auditions? While unlikely, it's theoretically possible for a shady client to steal someone's audition file and use it as the final recording, unbeknownst to anyone else. Watermarking one's audio tends to be heavily frowned upon in casting, not to mention it's annoying and distracting, so a tactic some actors use is changing a word or only auditioning for a portion of the script requested. "One of the things I'm incredibly cautious about is not auditioning for a full script," says Aimee Smith. "If I can see the word count is 100 words, and they've listed 100 words as the audition script - I'll record a portion and send whatever demo I have that matches the sector they're casting."
Okay, so let's say that a talent has read all the disadvantages and red flags and still decides they would like to join an online casting site. What are some must-haves in order to be successful?
- Home studio. "Room acoustics are 50% of an audition. The rest of it is your ability to act/read copy," says Duffy Weber. If you're recording in a large open space, using a low-quality microphone, or you have significant background noise in your audition, you probably will not be considered. As mentioned, these sites are very competitive...and if the 100 other talent auditioning for the same job have great home studios, chances are your submission will get tossed.
- Basic editing/technical knowledge. You don't need to go out and spend a bunch of money on a fancy DAW, but you'll need to know at least the bare bones of how to edit your auditions and files. Many clients on pay-to-play sites prefer "ready to go" audio, so cleaning up your audition files can go quite a way in making a good impression. You'll also need a solid knowledge of how to use your equipment properly, such as setting your gain to a healthy level based on what you're recording, and using correct microphone technique. It doesn't matter how good your equipment and space is if your gain is set too hot to where the audio is clipping!
- Willingness to go hard on the auditioning grind. If you tend to procrastinate or let yourself get lazy when it comes to auditioning, P2Ps may not be a great investment for you. "It's definitely a numbers game on the P2P sites and if you're not pumping them out WITH good skills behind it, you just won't book and it won't be worth it in the end," says Bruce E. Hennigar II.
- Semi-open availability. Unfortunately, pay-to-play sites aren't super-friendly to those who have day jobs, school, or nocturnal schedules...or even just busy people in general. Auditions tend to get posted early and close early, quick-turnaround jobs are prevalent, and the workings of the site favor those who have the luxury of sitting in front of their computer all day waiting for one to pop up.
- A profile that makes the algorithm work for you. A lot of the algorithms aren't exactly transparent, but online casting sites typically stress that the more "complete" your profile is, the more job postings you will see. Luis Torrelles considers it necessary to have "basic marketing and branding skills to create a compelling profile and position yourself with each and every audition in the client's head." A big part of this seems to be keywords that describe your voice and the "types" you tend to get cast for. For example, "warm yet sultry millenial girl-next-door who can easily jump from friendly to flirty to funny." Adding more samples seems to be beneficial, as well.
- Demos/samples. Unlike with agency and studio submissions, you don't necessarily need an expensive, fancy demo for a pay-to-play site. After all, the grand majority of jobs are cast off of auditions, not demos. Still, having targeted samples of some kind can help the algorithms to work in your favor, or show off your versatility to a client who liked what you did in an audition but wants to make sure you can do something a little bit different if needed.
- And last but certainly not least, plain old skill. "Much like any other industry, pay-to-play site clients demand that you have the skill to perform well enough that your voice represents their product," says Richard Di Brittania. It is highly advised for talent to have at least some sort of basic acting foundation and/or training before jumping into a pay-to-play site if they want to see a return on their investment. Commercial and narration training may be especially helpful, considering those jobs tend to be the majority of pay-to-play auditions. Talent also need to be able to self-direct efficiently enough to ensure they are delivering quality reads.
If you’re a client…
We know it seems quick, easy and cheap to hire talent through a pay-to-play site. But consider these advantages to auditioning and hiring talent directly (or through a reputable casting director):
- Ability to be fair and transparent about pay rates without worrying about how much a middleman might be skimming off the top
- Easy communication with talent directly through email rather than relying on a third-party site for messaging
- Ability to easily reconnect with talent later for additional work or role reprisals (if talent leaves an online casting site and deletes their profile, you may not have an easy means of contacting them later)
- Ability to set customized contracts, NDAs, and other paperwork, without being forced to use the boilerplate agreements set by casting sites
- Ease in coordinating live directed sessions, if needed
- Files delivered through platform of choice or directly to your email
- Better reputation and working relationship with voice actors
- Access to a more diverse talent pool, especially if specific representation is needed
- Potentially able to access a higher caliber of voice talent who are at a point in their career where they don't use pay-to-play sites
- Potentially more chance to credit voice talent properly as well as arrange promotions/events if desired (many talent use a pseudonym on pay-to-play sites due to fear of angering current or potential agents or being taken less seriously in the industry)
- In the case of working with a casting director, access to a curated set of auditions by professional and vetted talent with high quality audio (without having to sift through hundreds of unusable submissions!)
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