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Post by kainico on Mar 19, 2017 10:46:02 GMT -8
Hey there everyone!! All day yesterday i looked at microphones because I'm in the market for a new one! YAAYYY! I also stumbled across some people who are also looking into a new upgrade from their microphone. This should help those of you (and myself) who are looking for a new mic to find what you're looking for based on this information! Before I start the list, there is one thing you absolutely need to know. NO ONES VOICE IS THE SAME. Microphones that some may swear are gifts from god, may sound like gifts from satan to others. Now with that said here we go! For voice acting / voice over projects, the most recommended type of microphones are Large Diaphragm, Cardioid, Condenser microphones. The Cardioid microphones are often called Unidirectional as well. However, a multi pattern microphone (meaning you can switch) is always welcomed for the flexibility. FREQUENCY RESPONSE: This tells you how much the mic can pick up sort of. The most common numbers you will find are 20hz - 20khz. Meaning it can pick up noise as low as 20hz and as high as 20khz. Extra mention from duffyweber: The average human range goes from 60-880hz (basso-profundo to coloratura) you have resonant frequencies. Frequencies up at 20Khz affect the overall sound and tone of your voice. MAX SPL: This is how much LOUD noise the mic can pick up with ease essentially. The higher the number the more loud noises the mic can handle. An average Max SPL that I've seen thus far is 130db. It's IMPORTANT to understand that your recording program can peak as well, not JUST your mic. IMPEDANCE: this is basically how much your quality degrades the longer your chord is. The popular choice is 200ohms, however me personally, don't see much of an issue here since I don't intend on being too far from my interface. SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO OR S/N: This determines how much bg noise your mic blocks out. The higher the number the less bg noise your mic is likely to pick up, HOWEVER I do believe, if i'm not mistaken that is, that this could also affect quality in general if you're not careful. SELF NOISE: this is how much noise the microphone produces itself. Meaning the humm or buzz the electrical currents make for example. LOW CUT FILTER: This determines the low end rumble getting cut off for a cleaner sound. (this is one thing i don't fully understand yet, so apologies) If your mic DOESN't have an att pad, you can buy a REALLY good inline one from Shure for about 80 bucks. Extra mention from duffyweber: It's always best to let the sound engineer handle the low end sounds and cut out what is needed.You can always edit out the low end sounds later on, but if you need a low end sound that is cut off by this then there is no getting it back. Lastly, Pads. Some people, like myself, reallllly enjoy those things on your microphone that adjust your db for a quick fix on noise control. Most mics I've seen with this option have a -10db option, however some also have a -20db. Extra mention from duffyweber: If your mic DOESN'T have an att pad, you can buy a REALLY good inline one from Shure for about 80 bucks. Bonus notes: Even if you have this expensive, fancy setup, you still may not end up happy with your quality or recording overall. It's important to get to know your mic and your body when recording. If you're in this situation (like I have been) adjust the angle, height, position of your mic, your mouth, and anything else that could be a factor to help this matter. Duffy reminded me of the importance of trying to understand yourself with your mic, don't just write off your mic as garbage because it didn't work the first time  Another awesome thing duffyweber mentions are why large diaphragm mics: DISCLAIMER: I do not by any means claim to be a pro on this matter, I simply did a TON of research yesterday and figured I'd share what I learned. If i got any of it wrong please feel free to let me know and I'll look into it Thanks and I hope this helps everyone! |
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duffyweber
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Post by duffyweber on Mar 21, 2017 6:56:08 GMT -8
VERY nice!
I might add that while the human voice range goes from 60-880hz (basso-profundo to coloratura) you have resonant frequencies, so that stuff up at the 20Khz might not LOOK important, but it IS. It affects the overall sound and tone of your voice. A good punch on the high end (which I like) will make you sound crisp, (and while billed as "good for female vocals" will add a NICE texture to bass voices) but on a cheaper mic if you have a lot of high shrieky bits it can come off as staticky, like cellophane.
Meanwhile if there's a slight (0.3DB or so) downward dip or decline from, say, 200-1000 hz you'll get warm fuzzy sound at the expense of that super-crisp, "cold" sounding clarity.
(As kainico says, This is all generalization. To know what a mic REALLY sounds like, you have to LISTEN to it. Reading a response chart doesn't always let you know what the mic actually performs like. ALWAYS try a mic before buying, if you have the chance, and try it on the same model of interface you use.)
Learning to work with YOUR mic is KEY. I've had people who had a "crappy" mic that became an "awesome" mic when they adjusted how it was positioned, the gain levels, their distance, and how they addressed it.
As the the SPL and attentuation pad: YEEES. These are nice. I have a PG27X with a -20 pad that I LOVE for screaming parts. A high SPL means you don't peak the mic, and thus, you don't have to re-record loud parts on an already tired throat. If your mic DOESN't have an att pad, you can buy a REALLY good inline one from Shure for about 80 bucks.
Your interface is just as important as your mic. Luckily there's a lot of inexpensive interfaces that do an awesome job, so it's less of an issue than selecting a mic. I like the Focusrite Scarlett (2i2 and above) best, myself, but Presonus makes some good stuff, too.
OH! Also, the low cut filter, in most cases shouldn't be used by default. Let the sound engineer cut the lows out if s/he wants to. Unless YOU are the sound engineer, then go crazy. ; ) If the sound is not captured to begin with, you can't get it back, but if you CAPTURE the lows, you can always EQ them out in the DAW. Low cuts are more for stage use, in my experience, although I find them REALLY useful when doing really high-pitched character voices to cut out some of my bass registers if they accidentally kick in during the performance. Granny should NOT sound like Alexander Ort. ; )
GREAT article, kainico! = )
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duffyweber
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Post by duffyweber on Mar 21, 2017 7:10:00 GMT -8
P.S. if you're still looking for mid-range mics, there's a TON of them out there.
A few I know for a fact do a good job all around for most people are the AT4040, AT4050, Oktava Mk-105 (YEEES!), Shure SM27 (oddball but I REALLY like it) PG42 or PG27(HIGH noise floor!), Aston Spirit (A couple friends of mine rave about this one. They make good sound with it, too.) and CAD Equitek e300 v2. Neuamnn u87/u67 goes outside the range of "mid-range" but if you can get your hands on an Oktava MK-219 or one of Michael Joly's mods it'll sound identical, more or less.
Cheers!
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Post by benedict on Apr 16, 2017 12:18:04 GMT -8
From the land of the "I haven't recorded any VA yet", I've got some questions:
Do you tend to stick to one mic per job? Or do you switch mics for different takes?
Say if you're doing a set of lines at a whisper and another set at a scream, would you switch to a mic with a higher SPL for the screaming parts? Would you switch technologies, say, from a condenser for the whispers to a dynamic for the screaming?
If so, how do you deal with the change in sound the change in mics introduces?
Thanks,
Tom
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Post by JonoVO on Apr 16, 2017 14:22:04 GMT -8
From the land of the "I haven't recorded any VA yet", I've got some questions: Do you tend to stick to one mic per job? Or do you switch mics for different takes? Say if you're doing a set of lines at a whisper and another set at a scream, would you switch to a mic with a higher SPL for the screaming parts? Would you switch technologies, say, from a condenser for the whispers to a dynamic for the screaming? If so, how do you deal with the change in sound the change in mics introduces? Thanks, Tom I'm sure Duffy will go into explanation about that, he's the best mic guy on the board! But for me, 1 voice, 1 mic. |
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duffyweber
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Post by duffyweber on Apr 25, 2017 15:28:56 GMT -8
From the land of the "I haven't recorded any VA yet", I've got some questions: Do you tend to stick to one mic per job? Or do you switch mics for different takes? Say if you're doing a set of lines at a whisper and another set at a scream, would you switch to a mic with a higher SPL for the screaming parts? Would you switch technologies, say, from a condenser for the whispers to a dynamic for the screaming? If so, how do you deal with the change in sound the change in mics introduces? Thanks, Tom You're absolutely right! Two different mics are sometimes very hard to match. I DEFINITELY try to use the same setup for the job all the way through. If I absolutely CAN'T, then I start by picking similar sounding mics, and by playing with the EQ settings on the odd mic (Whichever one I do the extra line here or there with) to make it match the mic that the bulk of the lines have been done with. You want to fiddle with one or two lines, not twenty or thirty. For whispers versus screams, rather than changing mics, the attenuation pad switch (or an inline ATT pad) and the gain settings are your friend. The "sound" of the mic is still the same if you adjust those things properly. You might need some light adjustment in the DAW, but it will still have the same overall sound. Changing mics can give you a different sound entirely, which isn't good. Also, if you DO use two different mics: Less is more. Try not to EQ any more than necessary. The plot spectrum tool can help you visualize what needs to be done, if your ear isn't cutting it. Good use of some light compression can work wonders on a thin mic, but again, a light touch is recommended. The bottom line is, don't ever swap mics in the middle of a job if you can help it. The audio sounds different, and it's hard to make it match without fiddling endlessly with the EQ, compression, phase (on my Russian mics), and other settings, so there's almost never* a reason. If you're doing pickup lines while traveling, be sure you've got a preset or process that you KNOW for a FACT will alter the audio from your travel mic to sound like your main mic. Hope this helps! ^_^ Cheers! -Duffy ____________________________ *That said, I'll play devil's advocate, and give you three reasons, if only to illustrate the rarity of why you'd ever want to do this, and why you probably STILL shouldn't:  One: If I'm being my own sound engineer, and don't want to stop to adjust the gain, I'll run two very, very similar mics, but one with the ATT pad engaged. If I hit REALLY loud parts, and one mic peaks/clips, I can use the audio from the quiet mic's channel and try to salvage the take. (You'll note that this is usually not needed, and has the added extravagance of assuming a second, SIMILAR mic. Best to just keep an eye on your gain/vocal volume.) Two: If a character is doing radio/walkie/talkie chatter (or is a character ON the radio) switching to a ribbon mic gives it that old, fuzzy, radio sound. (You'll note this can be done easily in post-FX, so you don't really NEED to swap mics, unless you're going for truly authentic sound. Even then, listeners don't care/won't notice. I save the ribbon for when the WHOLE job needs to sound old-timey.) Three: Fun story time! ( Anyone who knows about my long, rambling stories can stop groaning now, please.) On one job, I absolutely COULD. NOT. GET. this loud, howling, sad, death scream to not peak even my robust little MK-105, and it wasn't sounding as good on mics with a heavy ATT pad because when I brought them up to volume, they sounded really thin compared to the rest of the audio. So I recorded it with an old mk-18 that SHOULD have had 70 volts going to it, but what it GOT was the 48 my interface supplies, and it did the trick. It didn't peak, and the MK-18 is easier to match to the MK-105 than anything else I've got, except maybe the pg27, and it was the heavily padded one. (You'll note this only works if you have a 36 year old mic running on the wrong voltage. A few more turns on the gain knob might have fixed my problem, but I only wanted to do ONE more take. That was a LOUD scream.) |
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duffyweber
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Post by duffyweber on Apr 25, 2017 15:38:05 GMT -8
I'm sure Duffy will go into explanation about that, he's the best mic guy on the board! But for me, 1 voice, 1 mic. As usual, you've summed up perfectly in four words what I've managed to put into a long, rambling post. ; ) This is exactly how you should be doing it. And even if I WERE using a different mic for a different character, for some reason, I'd still try to EQ it to match the overall sound of the main mic, afterward. No sense in unduly surprising your customer's sound engineer. EDIT: How could I have forgotten to thank you for the wonderful compliment? You're too kind. ^_^ |
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Post by benedict on Apr 26, 2017 9:27:41 GMT -8
Awesome! Thanks a ton, Duffy. I'm a rambler, too, so I appreciate all the pointers and stories.
You raise another question, though. The only example I have is a field recording story, though, so my apologies in advance for drifting so far from VA to ask it:
I'm using a field recorder rather than an interface at this point. (I can't afford both right now, so I'm using what I have.) One of the features it has is that I can record two channels from a single mic at two different gain levels. Basically one of the channels acts as if it has an attenuation pad in front of it. Would this be a good route to go?
The one drawback to this is that if the mic hits its max SPL, it still distorts even if the preamps don't. I ran into this while recording booming surf a couple of months ago. I dialed back the gain as far as I could and set up the second pair of channels at -12dB, but during a couple of impacts both tracks distorted even though neither one peaked. (To be fair the surf was big. I was on top of twenty foot cliffs, and the spray was popping up another thirty feet over that. Poor mics never stood a chance.)
I don't have a lot of experience using microphones for voice. Is there a risk of hitting the max SPL on a vocal mic without calling in the forces of nature?
Ok, that was more than one question. Sorry.
And thanks again!
Tom
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duffyweber
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Post by duffyweber on Apr 26, 2017 12:21:35 GMT -8
Yes, it seems like you're hitting max SPL for that mic. I'm guessing the field recorder is a mics-and-data-storage handheld sort of unit? For voice, I usually prefer a large diaphragm condenser mic for two reasons. Well, one reason with two sides to it. It's the kind of mic to get the most complete capture of all the sound, but without having too much of a low SPL. Dynamic mics have a lot higher SPL, but they do not capture as complete a sound profile as an LDC. Small diaphragm condenser mics don't grab as wide of a sonic profile, and are awesome for a lovely, crisp, cool sound, but an LDC is easiest to work with for voice applications, in my humble opinion. The back side of that is, of course: A condenser mic of will have an internal electronic preamp that has a certain distortion point. Less expensive internal mic preamps will have lower clipping points. And I'm betting your portable mic is a small diaphragm condenser mic, which will, again, have a nice, crisp sound, but probably a low SPL. hulahulamoocow.com/voiceboards/benedict.pngDoes #3 look like what you're getting? If so, you're probably maxing out the volume your mic/unit can handle. EDIT: In your case, it may still look like #1 EDIT2: What model/brand is your equipment? If it had an input/gain knob, try dialing that down, just to make sure you're not maxing out some sort of internal pre-amp and not the mic-related components. |
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Post by benedict on Apr 26, 2017 19:02:43 GMT -8
I'm using a Tascam DR-70D, which has built-in mics, but I don't use them. I use it as more of a preamp/digitize/storage kind of thing. And you're right, the mics were a pair of SDCs in a stereo boundary array. They never quite clipped, so it was closer to #2 in your diagram, but something weird was happening at that point in the recording. For the most part I only ever use them on quiet sources, so I was well into the land of the ughknown when I made that recording. I haven't used them on anything that loud since then.
In any case I'm planning to use an LDC for VA work. My other mics are good for frogs and birds, but they're... unkind... when it comes to my voice.
Cheers!
Tom
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duffyweber
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Post by duffyweber on Apr 29, 2017 16:43:16 GMT -8
I'm using a Tascam DR-70D, which has built-in mics, but I don't use them. I use it as more of a preamp/digitize/storage kind of thing. And you're right, the mics were a pair of SDCs in a stereo boundary array. They never quite clipped, so it was closer to #2 in your diagram, but something weird was happening at that point in the recording. For the most part I only ever use them on quiet sources, so I was well into the land of the ughknown when I made that recording. I haven't used them on anything that loud since then. In any case I'm planning to use an LDC for VA work. My other mics are good for frogs and birds, but they're... unkind... when it comes to my voice. Cheers! Tom Cool! I'm glad you got it figured out. It also sounds like you might be a fellow mic/sound geek! If so, (and depending ENTIRELY on your voice type and the sort of work you plan on doing,) you might be one of the few people I'd recommend, as you get more into VA, of eventually having a really nice small diaphragm condenser lying around (though certainly not as your primary.) They come in handy when you want a crisp, bright, ICY cold, high-precision read. You'll end up having to beef it up a tidge in post using EQ but you'll get SHARP precision. But in general for VO/VA they're more finicky to work with for all-purpose, and they're not as robust as your average LDC. I feel your problem here might be more in your interface than the mics. I'm curious as to what brand/model they are. We might be able to find some cool way for you to work with them. Perhaps not as primaries, but heck, it's always fun to see what a mic can do, if you fiddle with it! ^_^ |
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